Defence Cooperation and Sales 2004: Jan - March [Archive]

TahirN

01-15-2004, 08:30 AM

By Qudssia Akhlaque

ISLAMABAD, Jan 14: The Bush administration has made a comprehensive proposal to Pakistan for a strategic dialogue covering technical areas where the US has agreed to cooperate with India, informed sources told Dawn on Wednesday.

These areas include civilian nuclear activities, civilian space programmes and high-technology trade as well as missile defence. The US administration reiterated the offer to Pakistan through high level official contacts recently, the sources maintained.

"In-depth consultations on the areas with the focus on technical aspects and modalities are likely to commence soon," a source privy to the process told Dawn.

According to the source the proposed dialogue could be at both political and official levels, separately or simultaneously. On Wednesday a senior US administration official was also quoted as saying that the US was offering Pakistan a dialogue with the specific objective of entering into a strategic partnership with it.

This statement coincided with the formal announcement by US President George Bush of the US having entered into a strategic partnership with India to expand cooperation in three specific areas.

When Foreign Office spokesman Masood Khan was asked to comment on the US administration's offer to Pakistan of holding a strategic dialogue, he said: "This has been a continuing dialogue for quite some time and we look forward to the US cooperating with us in similar fields."

Both civilian and military bureaucracy have welcomed the US proposal as a very positive development that could lead to a constructive and meaningful strategic cooperation between the two countries.

The closest to a strategic dialogue that Pakistan and US have had so far has been the peace and security dialogue, which started in June 1998 in Washington. The US offer of a dialogue aimed at a strategic partnership with Pakistan is widely seen as a logical culmination of the ongoing peace and security dialogue between Islamabad and Washington.

The US administration had briefed Pakistan about its decision to enter into a major strategic partnership with India in the last quarter of 2003 in Washington and Islamabad. Pakistan had serious reservations on this development. President Pervez also conveyed his displeasure on this front in an unscheduled meeting with US Secretary of State Colin Powell just ahead of his talks with President Bush last September. President Musharraf was then given the commitment by the US administration that it would soon make some concrete offer to Pakistan as well.

http://www.dawn.com/2004/01/15/top8.htm

Rashid

01-18-2004, 01:28 AM

AOA

Good news from a reliable source, that Saudi Arabia has signed a deal for 100 Al-Khalid MBTs with Pakistan. The infrastructure for the transfer of these tanks to Saudi Arabia is being setup. This deal will greatly enhance our confidence and in capabilities. :)

Usman Shabbir

01-18-2004, 03:02 AM

nasim

01-18-2004, 04:30 AM

I am sure details will come sometime in the near future but if saudi arabia is to procure the al-khalid, where does the induction of the tank stand with the PA and in what ways would the saudis want there tanks to be modified.

I am venturing out to guess that al-khalids desert capabilities (or functional survival) have a huge role in a possible deal here.

ranajee

01-18-2004, 06:48 AM

any body knows about any deal for used submarines for PN

Gaf

01-18-2004, 07:17 AM

AOA

Rashid, many thanks for this piece of information. Hopefully the media will report this event soon aswell.

Good news from a reliable source, that Saudi Arabia has signed a deal for 100 Al-Khalid MBTs with Pakistan. The infrastructure for the transfer of these tanks to Saudi Arabia is being setup. This deal will greatly enhance our confidence and in capabilities. :)

This is good news, when you infrastructure, are you taking about support infrastructure or manufacturing infrastructure? One is more beneficial to Pakistan than another. However, the sale of Al-Khalid out of it's home country is a welcome development and should aid the reputation of the tank on the international markets!

100, seems to be more of a taster to see if they can get on with the tank, hopefully more will follow!

Any ideas on the dollar value of the contract?

Usman Shabbir

01-18-2004, 09:15 AM

Any ideas on the dollar value of the contract?

My guess is around 150-200 million USD.

Awaisi

01-18-2004, 09:18 AM

Hello Mr. Submariner,

That seems to be a very sneaky question.

I would suggest that, for being nice with other Pakdef members, pls. come out with your real name like others have.

Awaisi

SSAAD

01-18-2004, 10:41 AM

100, seems to be more of a taster to see if they can get on with the tank, hopefully more will follow!

That is two brigades worth of tanks. A fairly sizeable acquisition any way you look at it. Great news for Pakistan.

TahirN

01-18-2004, 04:40 PM

Sorry to bring this up again but i read something interesting about the Belguim F16's on AFM forum :o

Some geezer called 'mavaustin' posted this:

(Jan. 13, 2004): According to a circulation relased by the Pentagon, the U.S. has given Belgium "conditional permission" to sell its surplus F-16s to Pakistan.

www.forecastinternational.com

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18976

Has anyone got access to forecast international? If so, please can you post the full article :cool:

SyedA

01-18-2004, 04:44 PM

He might have gotten it from us, it was posted in PAF news section i think, but he is also a defense consultant so he might have access to it already.

SyedA

01-19-2004, 10:14 PM

Riyadh may buy $40m Super MashaqPESHAWAR - Pakistan may export US$40 million Super Mashaq training aircraft to Saudi Arabia.

“Pakistan is likely to get contracts to export Super Mashaq training aircraft to Saudi Arabia and Oman,” said Air Commodore Pervez Saadiq, Member (commercial) of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra, while making a presentation on the topic of “Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in collaboration with private sector” at a seminar entitled “Opportunities for SMEs in defence equipment manufacturing” here on August 8, 2003.

He told the participants of the seminar that the total value of the training aircraft likely to be exported to Saudi Arabia comes to US$40 million. Talking to newsman, he told that Pakistan was close to formally signing the deal with Riyadh to export Super Mashaq aircraft indigenously built at PAC, Kamra.

Apart from exporting the training aircraft to Oman and Saudi Arabia, he said while making the presentation, Islamabad, PAC was already in the process of negotiating export deals with some six countries to provide them PAC’s indigenously built products.

The likely export deal with Saudi Arabia would come in addition to a similar contract under which Riyadh was provided drones. He said his organization was taking care of the repair and maintenance of the aircraft and other equipments of the Pakistan Air Force.

“Hundred percent repair and maintenance of PAF’s jets and equipment is being done at the PAC, Kamra making huge savings for the country,” said Air Commodore Saadiq.

He explained the history, activities and functioning of PAC in addition to its role in contributing to the country’s exports and promoting local vendors involved in manufacturing defence related equipments.

He also dwelt at length on different products and systems being indigenously built by the PAC, Kamra and their performance particularly the Audio Video Tape Recording System installed in the fighter jets to monitor flight operations.

Earlier, Air Commodore Masood Malik, member policy, planning and development of the Defence Export Promotion Organization (DEPO) in his presentation on “contribution of private sector in defence export” said that Pakistan’s public and private sector involved in defence equipment manufacturing stood great prospects to capture due share in the international market.

Pakistan’s defence exports stood at about US$100 million in the last financial year getting improved from US$50 million two years back, he added.

Mr Malik said that the country could easily lift its defence exports to US$250 million even if it managed to take only one per cent of the total volume of the defence exports recorded in the region.

Replying to a question he said that Pakistan’s defence sector’s exports were higher than those recorded by India last year. India’s defence exports, he claimed, stood at around US$60 million last year against.

DEPO, he added, was concentrating to export non-traditional products to the traditional markets. Briefly touching upon certain defence export deals he said air launched weapon system was being exported to Sri Lanka. In addition to that, he added, Pakistan’s public and private sector involved in defence equipment manufacturing was exporting certain other items to six different countries.

Apart from the vintage and sporting guns manufactured at the tribal town of Darra Adamkhel, Pakistan is also exporting uniforms to certain Middle Eastern countries. According to him, certain other countries, too, had recently shown interest in Pakistani defence equipment.

Earlier, he told newsmen that country’s defence equipment manufacturing sector was improving and was eying to improve the level of its exports to the Middle East and concentrate more on the markets of Africa.

Attaching extra importance to the country’s private sector involved in defence equipment manufacturing, Mr Malik said that the defence export strategy of DEPO could not complete without involving the private sector.

AkramIshaqKhan

01-20-2004, 12:42 AM

Guess who had the rights to sell/market Super Mushak in North America last year?

Hint you won't believe it. :p

zia ul haq

01-20-2004, 02:08 AM

Asalaamo-a-laikum.

No idea.

Tell us and let us be the judge of whether we believe it or not.

iqbal's

01-20-2004, 07:42 AM

well said .
iqbal

AkramIshaqKhan

01-20-2004, 10:27 AM

zia ul haq wrote :
Asalaamo-a-laikum.
No idea.
Tell us and let us be the judge of whether we believe it or not.
***************

Yours truly.
Now the question is whether you believe it or not.

;)

Rauf

01-20-2004, 11:52 AM

Congratz JKhan, bring pride to Pakistan.

Boota Masih

01-20-2004, 12:42 PM

[QUOTE=

Yours truly.
Now the question is whether you believe it or not.

;)[/QUOTE]

Do you still have the rights or they were for 2003 only? Does it have FAA certification, if not, is it being pursued?

It is a very long shot but US border patrol/other law enforcement organizations and the private companies that are now providing training services to the US military including the Airforce Academy can be potential buyers.

Sultan

01-20-2004, 01:12 PM

How on earth did you manage that?? :) Had any success??

AkramIshaqKhan

01-20-2004, 02:02 PM

Unfortunately not much success.
There are many issues.

First and foremost as Boota mentioned the aircraft did not have FAA certification. So we were only allowed to bring a plane under an experimental desgination and then get it certified. Which mean't we could not even start looking for potential end customers since they could not even think about buying a plane without the FAA certification.

So we also did a cursory study on selling the plane as a trainer. Issues there were two folds, one was FAA certification and two was the availability of many competitiors in the US market, at a very competitive price. Even though we were getting an exceptional deal, the price was just not good enough.

We had a United Airlines ex. marine pilot do some due diligence. The issue became that there was some potential not totally feasible, so in the end the question came down to two things.

1) Invest $120,000 on a plane that might never make it in this market, due to certification issues and competitive pricing, and even product featuers.

2) And I think the bigger issue was that obviously the plane is not able to fly to the North American market hence needed to come in a kit form or what we call knock-down. This would require local resources to assemble, which was a big issue.

So I am sorry to say that our efforts failed. But we did try.
The market in North America is just too competitive in the Saab (Safari) Mushak range.

How we got the authorization?
Our dear friend Mushaf AM of PAF. May Allah bestow his eternal blessing on that man.

If anyone has ideas that defer from the above and would like to make the case the Saab Safari can sell in North America, pls let me know.

Best.

I think the rights were for 2003 - But I can check for certain. Renewing them would not be an issue if they expired.

ps: Oh I forgot another big issue - Mushaak could house 2 people only in tandem - which made it ideal for training. However trainers in the US can house 3 sometimes more, not to mention if we tried to sell Mushaak to end customers the seating issue was a big problem.

The plane has the ability to house more passengers but the blocks coming out of Kamra are unfortunately allowing only 2 passengers.
Also there were two designations to the Mushaak, two models with two prices.

Khurrum

01-20-2004, 04:13 PM

Unfortunately not much success.
There are many issues.
JKhan,

Did you look into Central/South American, market. If the price is right and you know people with cennoctions in those countries, which you can find quite a alot here in US. You may be able to market K8 as trainers or even survalence aircraft espacially in countries like Columbia, Venezula etc. or even Mexico.

Just a thought.

Regards,
Khurram

Gul Khan

01-23-2004, 04:18 PM

What the hell is this? If there is any truth in it I bet its to preassure India not to buy toys from the west.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/FA21Ag01.html

Much to the chagrin of India, Moscow simultaneously mulls selling arms to Pakistan. Following a trip to Pakistan in December 2003, Sergei Stepashin, head of Russia's Audit Chamber and former prime minister, announced that Pakistan could import $12 billion worth of Russian weapons within the next 3-4 years.

Rauf

01-24-2004, 09:20 PM

Think Russian are sending a message to Indians, I see it extremly hard for India to make Europe, Russia and USA 100% happy. However I only see Tech transfer from US to India not much in terms of arms as Aircrafts etc. India may get engines/missele technology ECM etc from US.

Aircrafts will continue to be Russian and French. Ship Russian origin with most likely US ECM/Weapons, european Combat suite. French Subs, British Trainers.

PA already receiving Helos from Russia, dont expect any major offensive weapons that could be used against Indians. Now if only PAF could secure Engines for SU-27, I am pretty sure PAF will have change of heart and SU-27 could be a aircraft that all of sudden meets PAF requirements like it did in mid 90s. SAM systems may be another welcome part as far as PAF/PA goes.

nasim

01-25-2004, 05:02 AM

The best part of russian equipment for pakistan is that so many suppliers exist in order to service many of their systems. The bad part for pakistan in any major russian system would be india's hold on russia's ears. While the systems pakistan has that are of russian origin can easily be maintained by third party suppliers, critical components from systems that only come out of russia are hard to come by on a reliable basis for india, imagine how easy supply chain problems could hit pakistan.

Personally, I think the best way to get by the indian sway over russia and russias own problems with supply is to go through china. Helo's like the ones pakistan is getting and other systems that are used my many nations across the globe have suppliers that are easy to find and too willing to trade. Whatever china produces in higher end systems is rock solid compared to anyone else and its not like anything coming out of china will be of less quality than of russia since russian equipment has very short life spans between overhauls. I have even read of reports that whereas initial batches of chinese produced SU-27's had to have russian engineers come to china and fix quality control problems, the story has completely changed over the last decade. Russian supplied planes have been having quality control issues whereas the chinese have reportedly done very well in tightening up their operation. Got this off CMF and reports posted there.

Roger

01-25-2004, 02:00 PM

I find the article very informative.

Thanks.

Behjat

01-25-2004, 02:24 PM

Salaam,

Nasim, I find it fascinating that you state that Chinese version weapons systems are more reliable. I wonder if you, or for that matter anyone else, has info on MiG21 vs F7 components and reliability thereof--particularly of airframe and engine.

In the past I more or less put Chinese and Russian systems in the same category as far as reliability is concerned. This was based on conjecture and assumption rather than actual information.

nasim

01-26-2004, 04:44 AM

As far as sources go, I mentioned that I read this tidbit regarding china and its SU-27 program off of CMF. How credible the story is, I dont know but there are a few reasons why I believe it could be true. Most of what china buys from russia, china not only procures but obtains the system and most if not all of its manufacturing as well. Long haul reliability of any system depends on maintenance and attention to detail so as far as quality of western versus russian or chinese systems comes down to how tight of an operation you run, competance of maintenance staff, quality of overhauling facilities and most of all availability of spares. The chinese do not find themselves in need of spares and so in my opinion, maintenance of their fleet would come down to how hard they work to keep their program sufficient to meet their needs. As far as pakistan is concerned, I think the only thing that has kept the PAF as relevant as it is to this point has been the determination to use whats at their disposal and depend on discipline to overcome the lack of any new platforms to work with.

As far as the F-7 vs. Mig-21, you are probably right that at best the chinese are at par with the russians. You have to remember that these F-7 are sometimes decades old when the Soviets were at the height of their programs and the chinese were no where on the map. To say that PAF f-7 do not fall out of the sky points to the determination to keep them in battle condition and so the availability of spares and upgrades has proven to be of benefit to pakistan whereas the F-16's were reportedly grounded at times when spares were short of hand, something the indians claim with many of their soviet era systems and their attrition is obvious. As far as modern systems go, you have to assume that with the money the chinese have and the access to technology their money gives them, as well as the development of their domestic skill base that they are bound to pass the russians up at some point. When I say pass them up, I mean on systems the chinese have themselves gone through the process of development with and spent significant resources upon. There is no doubt a russian carrier will be better if built today than a chinese one mainly because the chinese havent even spent the time the indians have on this idea. When you look at chinese aviation, it has been developing for decades now beginning with cheap immitations all the way to their own designs with 100% domestic input. That is why I would tend to believe reports that mention chinese having early quality control problems because its no secret they dont buy without TOT and thats why I dont have a hard time believing the russians might have quality control problems because we all know they dont get state support to any extent they used to and the domestic demand from russian military is not very large either. Its a lot of circumstantial stuff but it all points to one direction.

JameelY

01-28-2004, 11:14 PM

PTDI delivers plane to Pakistan

Yuli Tri Suwarni, The Jakarta Post, Bandung

Amid the nation's financial crisis and an internal labor dispute, state-owned aircraft manufacturer PT Dirgantara Indonesia (DI) delivered on Wednesday military passenger plane CN235-220 to Pakistan, but paid a penalty of US$300,000 for a three-month delay.

PTDI president Edwin Sudarmo said the financial crisis and the dispute with its workers had caused the delay.

"However, I thank the workers who worked hard to complete the order," Edwin told reporters after handing over the 49-passenger plane to Pakistani Air Force officer Commodore Kazim Ali Awan. The ceremony was witnessed by Pakistani Ambassador to Indonesia Syed Mustafa Anwer Hussain.

PTDI business operations director Budi Wuraskito said Pakistan had signed an agreement on July 29, 2002 to purchase four planes worth US$52 million.

Budi said two similar aircraft would be delivered in late June and August while the remaining plane, which was designed as a VIP aircraft, would be delivered on time by the end of this year.

He said the company needed a $2 million working capital to complete the three planes. The company's existing $8 million working capital would be used to develop two planes for the Malaysian Air Force.

PTDI recently failed to resolve the dismissal of 6,600 of its 9,000 workers through a bipartite negotiation, and the issue is to be taken up by the Committee for the Settlement of Labor Disputes, which is expected to prolong the process.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailnational.asp?fileid=20040129.C04&irec=7

BAF Shaheen

01-30-2004, 08:44 AM

Bangladesh To Buy 200 Anti Tank Guided Missiles (ATGM) From Pakistan

September 28, 2003: As part of growing defence cooperation between Bangladesh and Pakistan, Dhaka is likely to buy 200 anti-tank missiles from Islamabad, a media report from Bangladesh said on Thursday. In past Bangladash has also shown interest in Pakistani Baktar-Shikan Anti Tank missile system. Baktar-Shikan is considered coast effective but deadly anti-armor/anti-tank missile system which is designed by Pakistan.

Pakistan has also mooted the idea of a joint military exercise with Bangladesh for the first time, daily Jugantor reporte. The daily said a final decision on buying the missiles was likely to made later this year. When contacted, a Defence Ministry spokesman neither confirmed nor denied the report. Jugantor said Chief of General Staff of Pakistan Army Lieutenant General Shahed Aziz, a former student of Dhaka's Adamjee School, would visit the Bangladesh capital in late October. Earlier this month, General Mohammad Aziz, the Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee of Pakistan army and a close aide of President Pervez Musharraf, had visited the country.

A Bangladesh Navy warship, on the way home from England, is likely to anchor in Karachi as a "good will gesture", which will be followed by two Pakistani vessels visiting Bangladesh in late November, the report said. The daily also said atleast five top Bangladeshi officials would visit Pakistan next month for the fiftieth anniversary of the Sargoda Air Force School in Punjab. They include Kamal Siddique, Principal Secretary to Prime Minister Begum Khalida Zia, Chief of Bangladesh Air Force Air Vice Marshal Fakhrul Azam and Inspector General of Police Sohudul Haq Chowdhury

http://www.pakistanidefence.com/news/FullNews/2003/Sep2003/BD_BuyATGM_Pk.htm

*****

They have purchased the weapons already.

Bangladesh purchased large quantities of ATGM from China (HJ-73 and HJ-8) and also 7 Baktar Shikan's from Pakistan for trials and last year they purchased 200 of them and more will follow soon.

Pakistan has also actively been trying to market the Al Khalid MBT in Bangladesh as I saw Pakistan employ local defence marketing agents bidding for 48 modern MBT for the Bangladesh Army's new Armour regiment in the North.

ROMMEL

01-30-2004, 01:00 PM

This is in addition to the 3,000 105mm tank rounds, 8,000 mortar rounds and Artlillary shells.

zeeshan

01-30-2004, 09:58 PM

All we ever need to know about defence production in Pakistan.....I was really impressed that Pakistan makes fuel air explosives and work done by Margala electronics.

http://www.depo.org.pk/defence.htm

Maruf29

01-30-2004, 11:22 PM

Pakistan has also actively been trying to market the Al Khalid MBT in Bangladesh as I saw Pakistan employ local defence marketing agents bidding for 48 modern MBT for the Bangladesh Army's new Armour regiment in the North.

Pakistan has never tried to market Al Khalid to Bangladesh. Bangladesh needs the tanks this year and Pakistan is not ready yet to export 48 tanks in such a short notice. May be Pakistan has a long term plan to sell tanks to Bangladesh.

Boota Masih

01-31-2004, 10:22 PM

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - FEBRUARY 04, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pakistan and Turkey to discuss tank co-operation
Lale Sariibrahimoglu JDW Correspondent
Ankara

Pakistan and Turkish military officials are to discuss the joint production of Pakistan's new Al-Khalid main battle tank (MBT) when they meet in March to review possible areas of co-operation in the defence industry.

Military officials from the two countries said the issue was raised during Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf's 20-23 January visit to Ankara, during which Ankara and Islamabad signed an agreement to fight against terror and organised crime.

High-level military visits have increased in recent months. A visit to Pakistan by Turkish Land Forces Commander Gen Aytac Yalman on 9 January was followed by a visit to Pakistan by Turkish Deputy Chief of Staff Gen Ilker Basbug. Local media attention has focused on co-operation between the two Muslim nations in fighting radical Islamic violence.

Pakistani and Turkish military sources also told JDW that one of the priority items during these visits has been to turn a long-lasting intention between the two countries to enter into defence industry co-operation into a reality.

Speaking to the Turkish press in August 2003, Musharraf suggested joint production of the Al-Khalid with Turkey as one option. "In the past, both countries have been writing minutes but have been doing nothing. This time both sides are more positive on taking concrete steps in the defence industry," said a Pakistani officer.

At the March meeting officials will explore possible areas of defence industry collaboration and in particular joint production of Al-Khalid tanks. Both Turkish and Pakistani sources expect that an agreement could be signed at a planned meeting of senior officials in late October .

Pilot production of the 125mm-armed Al- Khalid commenced in November 2000 (JDW 1 August 2001). In 2002 Pakistan signed a $150 million contract with the Ukrainian Malyshev Plant to supply 315 6TD-2 series diesel engines over a three-year period to keep pace with Al-Khalid series production by Heavy Industries Taxila. The Al-Khalid project was initially started with the assistance of the China North Industries Corporation.

A Pakistani source said that Turkish industry could supply night-vision systems for the Al-Khalid to both Pakistan and possible export customers. Turkish sources ruled out the possibility that the tank could be Turkey's choice when the stalled project to acquire a new MBT is revived. They said that the Turkish Ministry of National Defence (MND) is still considering a South Korean government proposal for the joint development and production of a new tank (JDW 16 July 2003). Turkey's state-owned Machines and Chemical Industry Board is developing the Firtina 155mm/52-cal tracked self-propelled howitzer with assistance from Samsung Techwin of South Korea (JDW 17 July 2002).

Although there has been no defence industry co-operation so far, the two countries enjoy close political and military ties. On several occasions in the past Turkey has purchased bombs from Pakistan to meet its urgent needs when the US government delayed export licences. Commandos from the two countries have also conducted joint training.

Maruf29

02-01-2004, 12:12 AM

http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/02/01/d4020101044.htm

Defence pact okayed to train up Kuwaiti army
Cabinet approves Bar Council Order amendments, sends back BIMST-EC draft deal for scrutiny
Staff Correspondent

The cabinet yesterday approved Bangladesh-Kuwait Defence Agreement under which the armed forces will provide technical and vocational training to Kuwait Army for six years.

The agreement will be in force for as many years and it can be renewed for another six years if the two governments agree, official sources said.

The approval came at the weekly regular meeting at the Prime Minister's Office, held ahead of schedule because of the Eid-ul-Azha, for which there will be a three-day national holiday starting today. Prime Minister Khaleda Zia chaired the meeting.

The agreement will be signed formally soon.

About 3,741 members of the armed forces will be sent for three years on deputation to train up the Kuwaiti army.

With the signing of the agreement, Bangladesh would greatly benefit financially and the image of the armed forces will be brightened further, the sources said.

The three-year contract of the members of the armed forces can be further extended on satisfactory performance and support from the Kuwaiti government. If that's not the case, another batch will take over from them.

The agreement provides for a liaison headquarters of Bangladesh Army in Kuwait, which will supervise, maintain and look after the appointment, extension, deputation and all other aspects of the defence agreement.

Salary, allowance and other admissible facilities of the trainers have also been spelt out in the agreement although these could not be known immediately. Sources said the salaries and benefits are attractive and in line with the Kuwaiti and international pay structure.

The Kuwaiti authorities will provide the armed forces members with residence and education allowances for their children.

Each member will enjoy a total of 30 to 40 days' leave during the first three years.

Cabinet sources said the armed forces have been widely acclaimed by the UN and US-led allied forces during the peacekeeping operation after the 1991 Gulf War and also for their role to keep peace in and rebuild war-ravaged nations around the globe.

Ministers present at the meeting said that the agreement is a great achievement for Bangladesh and hoped the armed forces members would be able to show their excellence during their stay in Kuwait.

The cabinet also approved a five-year "Bangladesh-Egypt Science and Technological Agreement". This agreement is expected to be signed during Khaleda's upcoming visit to Egypt, official sources said.

Under the agreement, both countries will share expertise and experiences in the field of IT and expand scientific cooperation.

Besides, the cabinet has approved 'further amendment to Bangladesh Legal Practitioners and Bar Council Order 1971 (President's Order No. 46 of 1972)'. The amendment provides that a member of the Bar Council must have to inform it at least 60 days ahead of the polls about the venue from where he/she will cast vote.

Previously, a lawyer could be a member of any bar and cast vote anywhere in the country.

Meanwhile, the cabinet yesterday sent back the proposal of the BIMST-EC (Bangladesh India Myanmar Sri Lanka Thailand-Economic Cooperation) agreement for further scrutiny.

The proposal seeks form a free trade region to enhance economic cooperation among the member states.

Sources said the proposal was prepared by the officials at the deputy secretary-level and the cabinet asked for further improvement in the draft agreement to be prepared by secretary-level officials.

Cabinet members and the state ministers in charge of different relevant ministries attended the meeting. Cabinet Secretary Sa'adat Husain and secretaries concerned were also present.

kamran1924

02-05-2004, 11:51 AM

undefined

after 11 september uk started to export arms to pakistan nad around more than 300 licences issued to pakistan. i have read from uk stretigic arms report 2001 inwhich it include large calliber artillery and unmanned air vehicals. i want to know which large calliber artillery is pakistan asking from uk and wheich unmanned air vehicals it asked . and wheather pakistan got this or not because these licenses are only valid for 2 years.

BAF Shaheen

02-06-2004, 12:29 AM

Mr Maruf29 Pakistan has done so... They are employing Avia Trade Ltd as their agent in Bangladesh. If you need further proof please MSN me and I will show you the proof but I am sorry I cannot discuss this matter in a open forum as the data includes other military and security information which we are not allowed to reveal to non Bangladeshi civillians.

SyedA

02-06-2004, 01:11 AM

kamran1924

02-06-2004, 07:33 AM

i heave heard that pakistan has bought surface to air missiles launhing equipment from uk. do any body have information about that.

Maruf29

02-08-2004, 06:31 PM

just an observation, please dont take any offense, you guys are discussing banladeshi defence on a Pakistani forum and telling us you can't tell anyone but BD civilians :) kinda funny.

Its like going to someone else's house and discuss your family matters and tell your hosts, you can't hear it!!!

No argument there, Syed :p I am not taking this news that seriously though. Employing Avia Ltd. as Pakistan's agent does not necessarily mean, GOP is out there to sell tanks to GOB. There are other weapons that Pakistan can sell to Bangladesh :D

SyedA

02-08-2004, 07:01 PM

Pakistan, Ukraine agree on defence, trade coop

Munich—Foreign Minister Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri and his Ukrainian counterpart Kostyantyn Gryshchenko have emphasized upon the need to enhance cooperation in the fields of trade and defence.

Both the Foreign Ministers are here, attending the Munich Conference on Security Policy which began on Saturday. The meeting took place on the sidelines of the Conference. During the meeting the Foreign Minister of Ukraine extended an invitation to Khrushid M. Kasuri to visit Kiev which was accepted by him. Kasuri assures the Ukrainian foreign minister that he would undertake the visit at his earliest opportunity as it would act as a catalyst in further promoting mutually beneficial relationship.

The Ukrainian Foreign Minister also accepted the invitation to visit Pakistan.

Foreign Minister Khurshid M. Kasuri will be one of the keynote speakers at the conference, which was inaugurated by the German Foreign Minister Mr. Joschka Fischer.

The themes of the Conference are “Prospects of Transatlantic Relations, Future of NATO and the Future Developments in Middle East”.

Keynote speakers include Mr. Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri, King of Jordan, US Secretary for Defence Mr. Donald Rumsfield, Ministers for Defence from Germany, United Kingdom, France, Russia and Secretary General of NATO.

The Munich Conference on Security issues held every year in Munich has acquired the same prestige as enjoyed by the Davos Summit on world economic issues.—SANA

Hasib

02-09-2004, 07:38 AM

It would be nice if they sign TOT to manufacture the power packs including transmission and gear box in Pakistan for MBTs and other armored vehicles.
Hasib

kamran1924

02-11-2004, 09:45 AM

do any body know the pakistan defence imports from uk since sep 2001.

according to uk stretigic arms report 2001 and 2002,pakistan has got liscences for

1 unmanned air vehicals
2 large calliber artillery
3 surface to air missile launching equipment
4 air combat simulators
5 military bridges

so can any body give latest information on that?

SyedA

02-11-2004, 09:51 AM

Kamran

Not that we have heard anything about deals with UK. Do you have any details on what companies are/were involved in these sales?

kamran1924

02-11-2004, 09:58 AM

actually u can see all about uk export of arms to pakistan on their stretigic report published every year.

SyedA

02-11-2004, 10:03 AM

actually u can see all about uk export of arms to pakistan on their stretigic report published every year.
is it on the web? and if yes then what is the URL

SyedA

02-11-2004, 10:04 AM

This is their only UAV I know about.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/phoenix/index.html

kamran1924

02-11-2004, 11:23 AM

i think meggitt plc is major expoter of uavs in world and to see uk stretigic arms report you can see

http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/laos.pdf
http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1007029395474

H Khan

02-15-2004, 01:10 AM

By Mike Collett-White

ISLAMABAD, Feb 15 (Reuters) - With Pakistan's nuclear proliferation scandal exposed and peace moves with India under way, South Asia should be a safer place these days. But even as the United States vows to crush the atomic weapons black market and make civilian nuclear programmes safer, it is being seen as at least partly responsible for a growing arms imbalance between India and Pakistan that could have alarming consequences.

The risks raise the stakes as Indian and Pakistani officials meet in Islamabad from Monday for the first formal peace talks between their countries in nearly three years, and the first since they came to the brink of war in 2002.

With U.S. blessing, analysts say, India is seeking to build its conventional and non-conventional weapons defences, making Pakistan feel increasingly vulnerable and driving it to make more and better weapons to counter its rival.

Pakistan is on the back foot after its top scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan admitted leaking technology and hardware to North Korea, Libya and Iran via a sprawling nuclear black market.

Analysts believe the scandal could make it harder for Pakistan to expand and upgrade its arsenal.

India is soon to sign a $1.1 billion deal with Israel for the delivery of three Phalcon early warning radar systems. India also wants the $2.5 billion Arrow anti-ballistic missile system from Israel, although no U.S. clearance has been given.

"India's interest in Arrow is precisely to challenge Pakistan's nuclear deterrence," said Gary Samore of the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.

"Pakistan is right to worry about the longer-term nuclear and conventional weapons threat from India, which is being allowed by Washington to acquire dual-purpose technology and increasingly sophisticated early warning systems."

For its part, Pakistan seeks to acquire second-hand F-16 fighters from Belgium after the United States refused to deliver 28 of the fighters in the 1990s due to concerns over Islamabad's nuclear programme.

NEW ELEMENTS

Pakistani officials make no secret of their concern of the arms build-up by their neighbour.

"These are new elements being introduced in the India and Pakistan scenario," said military spokesman Major-General Shaukat Sultan. "They are going to result in an arms race and tilt the balance back in India's favour."

India already has a bigger army, a far more effective air force and more nuclear warheads.

According to Duncan Lennox, editor of Jane's Strategic Weapon Systems, India has around 50 nuclear warheads and Pakistan 25, although estimates vary widely on the secret arsenals.

The warheads can be fitted either to aircraft as bombs, or, more recently, to ballistic missiles. Lennox said India's defence acquisitions are made with China in mind, not just Pakistan.

Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy, a physicist and prominent anti-nuclear campaigner, doubts the effectiveness of anti-missile systems.

"The anti-ballistic missile system doesn't really work," he told Reuters. "India is making a mistake."

But he agreed that it did have a destabilising effect and could fuel the arms race nonetheless.

"Here the United States has much to be blamed for," he said.

As the imbalance widens, Pakistan will be encouraged to build more warheads and missiles to maintain what it calls its "minimum deterrence," analysts say.

Samina Ahmed, Pakistan director of the Brussels-based International Crisis Group, believes Pakistan's small nuclear arsenal is an effective deterrent to India, for now.

The further India gets ahead in an arms race, the more dangerous the situation becomes.

"The real problem lies not in Pakistan being unable to access technology, but when India decides to put its nuclear weapons in the field," Ahmed said. "That is when the arms race starts.

"It's very destabilising. If India fills in the gaps in its technology through this external assistance, it will encourage them to deploy. Do you think the Chinese will then sit back?"

In Pakistan, the proliferation scandal has pushed other issues to the background, at least for now.

While Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has vowed to put his own house in order, questions remain over how secure the nuclear apparatus in the country is.

If Musharraf is to be believed, Pakistan's intelligence services knew little or nothing of Khan's misdemeanours.

"Do you admit there was an intelligence failure? How can a well-guarded laboratory export without state permission?" asked A H Nayyar, a physicist and anti-nuclear lobbyist in Islamabad. "By their own admission this was a huge intelligence failure."

Trust in Pakistan, its intelligence services and Musharraf has clearly been shattered by the proliferation scandal, although the general will receive a sympathetic hearing in the West as long as he is a key ally in the U.S. war on terror.

Pakistanis fear Musharraf one day will cease to be useful, just as other military rulers have in the past.

"Pakistan must stay useful to the United States as long as it can. Once its utility is over, the harsh treatment will come," said Nayyar, referring to possible pressure in the long term to freeze or roll back its nuclear weapons programme.

02/14/04 22:54 ET

H Khan

02-16-2004, 09:58 PM

Los Angeles Times
February 13, 2004

By Selig S. Harrison

Selig S. Harrison, director of the Asia program at the Center for International Policy, is a former South Asia bureau chief for the Washington Post

Washington wants to encourage the search for a South Asian peace that was launched by Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee of India and President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan at their January summit. But the Bush administration could poison the atmosphere for India-Pakistan talks that start Monday if it goes ahead with imminent plans for major military sales to both countries.

President Bush promised Musharraf $1.5 billion in new military aid last June on top of $400 million that had been set aside for military sales to Islamabad after Pakistan signed up as a U.S. ally against Al Qaeda.

In the name of bolstering military operations against Al Qaeda and Taliban forces in Afghan border areas, Pakistan is pressing for immediate military deliveries instead of the five-year program envisaged by the White House. But most of the desired hardware — such as 80 attack helicopters, 1,000 armored personnel carriers and two squadrons of F-16 aircraft — would be used on the Indian border, not in Afghanistan. Giving them to Pakistan now would rekindle tensions between New Delhi and Islamabad just when the fragile peace process is getting underway.

The United States should freeze military transfers indefinitely to Pakistan and India until domestic political support for a detente is solid enough in both countries to neutralize the tensions that would be touched off by new military aid. This should include a delay in authorizing Israel's pending sale to New Delhi of the Arrow antimissile system, which was developed in cooperation with the United States.

Musharraf's domestic political position is shaky in the aftermath of the recent scandal over illicit nuclear deals by Pakistani scientists with North Korea, Iran and Libya, and the sale of the Arrow would strengthen the opponents of detente.

In the case of India, Vajpayee is campaigning for a new five-year term in April elections. His opponents would use U.S. military sales to Pakistan to fan fears of Islamabad and rekindle memories of the massive Cold War infusion of U.S. military hardware to earlier military regimes there.

The Pentagon spin that U.S. military help for Islamabad would relate only to the war on terror sounds to Indian ears like President Eisenhower's 1954 reassurances that a program of "limited" U.S. weapons aid to Pakistan would be solely for use against the Soviet Union and China. By 1965, the United States had poured $3.8 billion in military hardware into Pakistan. This encouraged the Pakistani military dictator, Gen. Ayub Khan, to stage cross-border raids in Kashmir that touched off a wider war in which his forces freely used its U.S. planes and tanks.

No sooner had India begun to forgive and forget than the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan led to another outpouring of weapons aid to pay off Islamabad for serving as a "front-line state."

With its new F-16 aircraft and heavy tanks, this second aid package was clearly not intended for use on the mountainous Afghan border but rather to bolster Pakistan's balance of power in plains warfare with India. Still more U.S. weapons channeled through Pakistan to Afghan resistance forces were skimmed off for Pakistani use.

In a striking repeat of history, the type of military aid that Pakistan is now seeking has less to do with Afghanistan than India. Islamabad's wish list includes the Predator aerial spy plane used by the United States in Afghanistan, Hawkeye mini-AWACs, AIM-9 missiles and P3 anti-submarine aircraft.

In addition to military aid, Bush's promises in June included $1.5 billion in economic assistance.

This aid should be provided, but with two conditions: Musharraf's cooperation with the United States in preventing the leakage of nuclear material and weapons to terrorist groups and rogue states — so far refused — and a commitment to negotiate confidence-building measures relating to India-Pakistani nuclear weaponry in the peace talks.

India, eight times larger than Pakistan, is much more important to long-term American interests, and the two nations should not be equated in U.S. policy.

The Bush administration's January announcement that it plans to expand high-tech cooperation with India, including cooperation in civilian nuclear and space technology, was a welcome recognition of what the White House called a new "strategic partnership" with New Delhi.

On military matters, however, the United States should proceed with caution, especially while peace talks are still at a delicate stage.

zeeshan

02-17-2004, 12:02 AM

PAF to get six used C-130s

By Arshad Sharif

ISLAMABAD, Feb 16: Pakistan Air Force would add six used C-130s to its air fleet at an estimated cost of $75 million by the end of the current year, PAF officials told Dawn.

Responding to questions about the deal and the costs involved, a PAF spokesperson said the refurbishing of the aircraft was currently under way at Lockheed Martin as per the agreement with the US government "which also includes transfer of technology."

The cost of the deal, in addition to the six aircraft, further includes one C-130E for cannibalization and use in other aircraft, upgrade of engines to Allison 56-A15 engines, avionics package, auto-pilot systems and complete upgrade, the spokesperson said.

Information collated from official PAF sources shows that the Glenn Amendment imposed by the US after the 1998 nuclear tests terminated all military sales to Pakistan and affected the fleet of 12 C-130s in the PAF inventory providing mobility and logistics support to the combat squadrons. Of the various repairables held in the US as a result of the Glenn Amendment, 145 belonged to the C-130 fleet of 12 aircraft.

In the late eighties, the C-130 aircraft were due for overhaul, commonly known as Programme Depot Management. The inspection was to be performed as per USAF document FD2060-86-52153.

The inspection required extensive non-destructive inspections including removal, cleaning, inspection, repairs, cleaning and rigging of all assemblies of C-130 aircraft.

Since PAF did not have the required infrastructure at that time, some of the aircraft were sent to Singapore and Peru for PDM. Four aircraft sent to Peru in 1989, 1990 and 1991 cost an estimated $2.15 million for PDM. The three aircraft sent to Singapore in 1991-92 and 1994 cost an average of $750,253 per aircraft.

The expenditure incurred on the last aircraft sent to Singapore in 1994 for PDM was $855,138. However, in 1994, a hangar was constructed which besides PDM had the capability of undertaking all types of major structural repairs and modifications on C-130 aircraft.

Asked to explain why Pakistan would be paying the US government contractors extra amount for upgrade of C-130E aircraft reportedly made redundant by Australia and sold at $2 million apiece when the facilities were available with the PAF, the official said: "It was part of the agreement that the upgrades would be carried out in the US."

The deal is said to have been tainted with allegations of kickbacks amounting to $16 million. However, the PAF officials said the differential in payments is covered by the cost of the extra packages with the C-130s.

"It is the usual practice with companies who do not get the contract to come out with allegations of kickbacks," an official said, denying any underhand deal in the sale.

dawn.com

kamran1924

02-17-2004, 10:54 AM

pakistan has got license of air to air missiles components in 2002 from ukl. any body know about what missile is pakistan seeking from uk.

SyedA

02-17-2004, 10:58 AM

pakistan has got license of air to air missiles components in 2002 from ukl. any body know about what missile is pakistan seeking from uk.
Kamran

if we knew it would have been posted here.

SyedA

02-19-2004, 01:09 AM

Ex-armymen sought for Iraq

By Sabihuddin Ghausi
KARACHI, Feb 18: The US AID Mission in Iraq is exploring the possibility of engaging 330 ex-servicemen from Pakistan in security jobs for the next three years. The job contract involves a payment of more than 150 million dollars (over Rs9 billion) to all the ex-servicemen to be engaged.

The contractor shall provide the Mission Security Force a 24-hour protective cover as a deterrent against unauthorized, illegal, or potentially life-threatening activities directed towards its employees, visitors, and properties.

Apart from this payment, every ex-serviceman will be given a life insurance cover. The US AID Mission in Iraq has at present 75 personnel in Iraq but plans are in hand to increase this workforce in the next six to eight months.

The International Multi Groups of Companies based in Karachi is seeking the government's permission for recruitment of ex-servicemen for this job.

H Khan

02-20-2004, 05:32 PM

Islamabad—Pakistan and United States Friday held talks here at the Foreign Office on strategic stability as part of broad ongoing dialogue on strategic and security issues including regional security.

According to PTV, the US was represented at the talks by the US Assistant Secretary of State for Arms Control, Stephen Rade Maker while Additional Secretary, Tariq Usman Haider represented Pakistan.

The two sides discussed recent global developments in arms control.

Tariq Usman reiterated that Pakistan attached importance to its relations with the US.

Rade Maker said these discussions are part of multi-faceted bilateral relationship and further demonstrate the US commitment to strong, cooperative and long-term relationship with Pakistan.

Later, Rade Maker called on Foreign Secretary Riaz H Khokhar and briefed him about US policies and perspective on international security, PTV reported.

Riaz H Khokhar informed the Assistant Secretary about his recently conclalks with the Indian Foreign Secretary and the agreement between the two countries to hold experts level talks on Nuclear-Confidence Building Measures (N-CBMs)—APP

H Khan

02-21-2004, 12:11 AM

By Arshad Sharif

ISLAMABAD, Feb 20: A 10-member delegation of US officials dealing with non-proliferation, missile defence, and arms control held talks with Pakistani officials at the foreign office on Friday.

The US delegation, led by Assistant Secretary of State for Arms Control Stephen Rademaker, held discussions with Additional Secretary Tariq Osman Hyder on matters relating to the United Nations. Later, Mr Rademaker met Foreign Secretary Riaz Khokhar.

Sources said issues pertaining to nuclear non-proliferation, regional nuclear CBMs and missile defence regime came under discussion. Findings of the International Atomic Energy Agency were also discussed, a source said.

In reply to a question, foreign ministry officials denied that any plan for conducting an operation by US forces in North-Western areas or the non-proliferation issue were discussed.

"The Assistant Secretary conveyed US views that in certain circumstances, missile defence could contribute to regional stability and the US was ready to further discuss the issue with Pakistan," the foreign office said, adding "both sides agreed to continue discussions on these issues."

The sources said the US had already offered technical assistance to Pakistan for 'securing' its nuclear arsenal. Pakistan maintains that its nuclear arsenal is in safe hands and it will not be given under foreign control.

"The two sides discussed recent global developments in arms control," the foreign office said. The Assistant Secretary noted that these discussions were part of a multi-faceted bilateral relationship and further demonstrated US commitment to a strong, cooperative and long-term relationship with Pakistan, according to a foreign office press release.

The foreign office described the discussions as part of a broad, ongoing dialogue on 'strategic and security issues, including regional security'. During the meeting with Mr Khokhar, Mr Rademaker briefed him on US policies and perspectives on international security. Mr Khokhar informed Mr Rademaker about recent talks with the Indian foreign secretary.

kamran1924

02-21-2004, 05:36 AM

do any body know when pakistan and uk are meeting in london for 2004 defence cunsultative group meeting. it is normally in spring but any body know about date.

zeeshan

02-21-2004, 05:44 PM

Pakistan to get US arms

By Rana Mubashir

ISLAMABAD: The Bush administration and majority of the Congress members are supportive of weapon’s sale to Pakistan, including P-3 maritime surveillance aircraft and harpoon anti-ship missiles.

The US-Pakistan security ties, which came to a halt after 1990 aid cut-off, have improved after Islamabad’s role in the US-led anti-terrorism campaign.

Giving details about Pakistan-US security co-operation, a diplomatic source said six C-130s from Lockheed Martin for about 75 million dollars under a Foreign Military Financing grant is also on the cards.

The Pentagon had also notified Congress of an additional three pending major arms sales to Pakistan, which are worth more than 300 million dollars. The six air surveillance, six air traffic control radars, and 40 Bell 407 helicopters are meant to enhance Pakistan’s ability to support Operation Enduring Freedom and to secure its borders.

The US Congress also was informed of another pending foreign military sale agreement worth 155 million dollars. Under this deal Pakistan is to receive six Aerostat surveillance radars, marking the first major arms sales to Pakistan in more than a decade.

A high-level US-Pakistan Defence Consultative Group - moribund since 1997 - met in September 2003 and included high-level discussions of military cooperation, security assistance and anti-terrorism.

Usman Shabbir

02-23-2004, 06:51 AM

ASELSAN DFINT-3T System Training, Tests and Field Trials in Pakistan

Aselsan DFINT-3T Transportable Communications Direction Finding and Intelligence System training, tests and field trials have been realized in Pakistan by an Aselsan Team between the dates of 30 October and 9 November 2000. Military personnel from Pakistan Land Forces Command Electronic Warfare Department were trained to operate DFINT-3T system and they have also participated in the all phases of the field tests and trials of the system. The result of the field tests and trials were successful.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10th Military Consultation Group Meeting Between Turkey and Pakistan

10th Military Consultation Group Meeting between Turkey and Pakistan was held in Islamabad-Pakistan on November 20-24, 2000. The purpose of the meeting is to improve the cooperation between two countries on defense industry and military education. Delegates from the Turkish Ministry of National Defense, Turkish Armed Forces, and Turkish Defense Industry Undersecretariat as well as the Representatives of Aselsan, MKEK, Havelsan, TAI, FNSS defense industry companies attended to the meeting. During the defense industry cooperation sub-committee meeting, the agenda items, "Cooperation on Aselsan DFINT-3T Transportable Communications Direction Finding and Intelligence System, ARS-2000 Surveillance and Fire Adjustment Radar, Thermal Imaging Systems and co-production of Image Intensifier Tubes have been discussed and the improvements have been explained to the committee members.

http://www.aselsan.com.tr/gying/NEWS2000.HTM#30

SSAAD

02-23-2004, 08:44 AM

Here is some info on the above DF system:
http://www.aselsan.com.tr/msting/dfint3T_eng.htm

MohammedA

02-23-2004, 10:22 AM

General Aziz Leaves For Nigeria And Egypt

RAWALPINDI, Pakistan : Feb 23 (PNS) - Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, General Muhammad Aziz Khan left here Sunday morning For 13-day tour of Nigeria and Egypt.

He was seen off at the airport by Defence Attaches of Nigeria and Egypt along with senior officials of Joint Staff Headquarter. The Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee will discuss matters of mutual interest with the officials of these two countries during his visit.

The End.

yasser

02-24-2004, 11:47 AM

http://www.drudgereport.com/rs.pdf

According to US DIA, Pakistan has twice as many nukes as India......

Hasib

02-24-2004, 12:09 PM

http://www.drudgereport.com/rs.pdf

According to US DIA, Pakistan has twice as many nukes as India......
I would not pay attention to drudge. This is the same site that claimed that Democratic Presidential hopeful, Senator John Kerry had a extramarital relationship. This report was discredited by all the mainstream media in USA.

Hasib

yasser

02-24-2004, 12:19 PM

I would not pay attention to drudge. This is the same site that claimed that Democratic Presidential hopeful, Senator John Kerry had a extramarital relationship. This report was discredited by all the mainstream media in USA.

Hasib

Hasib
That report is an official DIA document! Its not Drudge who wrote it up!

Drudge also was teh first to report Mocia Lewinsky scandal, so I stand by those figures!

Sultan

02-24-2004, 08:46 PM

Yasser is correct. The DIA report was first revelaed in Rowan Scarborough's new book: Rumsfeld's War.

Ahmed M

02-25-2004, 02:45 AM

We don't have to believe the DIA either. They are neither truthful nor friendly to pakistan. As someone said in the nuclear Issues forum it is only to create more sympathy for India, and show pakistan as a bigger threat. We should not take these reports as a sign of our strength or be happy about them. These reports are not new either. I remember reading similar reports long before on this forum from media sources. Now we have a DIA report. This is all happenning in the backdrop of targeting pakistan's capability as it is the only one that worries west. They do not treat India similarly. Doesn't it strike you as odd that before the nuke tests by both coutries in 1998, every wester source had more nukes for india and less for pakistan. But after that we are begining to see reports as india being a smaller power and pakistan a much bigger one. This is not without purpose. We should take these reports with a huge pinch of salt.

Muhammad Hasan

02-25-2004, 05:59 AM

Al-Khalid tank to be offered for sale

By our correspondent

KARACHI: Pakistan would showcase indigenously built Al-Khalid Tank for sale in the upcoming third IDEAS - International Defense Exhibition and Seminars - scheduled in September 2004.

"The tank has been handed over to Pakistan Army. So we can offer to sell by IDEAS event," Major General Syed Ali Hamid, Director General Defense Export Promotion Organisation told newsmen after chairing IDEAS Steering Committee meeting at a local hotel.

"Al-Khalid is country’s indigenous product and meets all international standards. It would definitely attract foreign buyers," he added.

DEPO Chief disclosed the organisation also planned to sell JF-17 Thunder - the indigenously produced fighter aircraft - by 2006.

"We believe due to its cost effectiveness, excellent operational capabilities, combat potential and many more advantages it would attract potential buyers internationally," Gen Hamid added.

He said after completion of flight-testing and weapons qualifications, initially a small batch of JF-17 aircraft would be produced in the first quarter of 2006.

"Regular serial production would start immediately after the completion of small batch production in small year," he elaborated.

DG DEPO claimed the country’s defense products export had crossed US$100 million mark and hoped: "It would go further up in years to come."

He said the IDEAS 2004 would help the DEPO in exploring new markets for Pak defense products.

"We are actually focussing third world countries as they have been potential buyers of our products," he said.

The third IDEAS is scheduled from September 14 to 17 at Karachi Expo Centre. The event designed after each two years, last held in September 2002.

Asim Siddiquee, Chief of Pegasus Consultacy - organisers of the event - said delegates from 65 countries were due to attend the IDEAS 2004 and over 100 local and foreign firms would showcase their defense products.

He said the high turnout of the official delegations at IDEAS 2002 not only reaffirmed the significance of the event itself, but it also highlighted Pakistan’s pivotal role as the centre point for interaction between the world leaders, especially from Asia, Africa and Middle East.

Earlier, at the meeting high officials from all the three armed forces, ministries of defence, foreign affairs, commerce and city government attended the meeting.

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/index.html

SSAAD

02-26-2004, 09:08 AM

Russia, Pakistan discuss defence cooperation

By Our Staff Reporter

ISLAMABAD, Feb 25: A visiting Russian delegation discussed with Pakistani officials here on Wednesday matters related to defence and communications cooperation between the two countries.

Issues related to defence, economic trade, and communication cooperation came under discussion in a meeting of Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Anatoly Safanov with Foreign Secretary Riaz Khokar at the foreign office.

"The foreign secretary reiterated the commitment of the government of Pakistan to reinvigorate its relations with Russia and expand bilateral relations in all fields, particularly defence and communications," a press release issued by the foreign office said.

The two sides discussed bilateral ties, Pakistan-India relations, counter-terrorism measures taken by both Pakistan and Russia, the menace of drug trafficking and other issues of regional and international importance.

Mr Khokar, the press release said, also expressed Pakistan's desire for an early expansion in the Pakistan Steel.he foreign secretary emphasized that Pakistan was committed to cooperating with Russia against international terrorism. He also renewed President Gen Pervez Musharraf's invitation to President Vladimir Putin to visit Pakistan at the earliest.

Mr Safonov said the war against international terrorism could be won when the root causes of terrorism like poverty, regional conflicts, systematic injustices and problems related to globalization were resolved. He expressed satisfaction at Pakistan's response to the challenge of international terrorism and its efforts with regard to drug trafficking.

Pakistan and Russia declared their interest in establishing constructive interaction in fighting international terrorism in all its forms and manifestations.

To remove existing impediments to the development of cooperation between Pakistan and Russian organizations, it was agreed to work towards the prompt settlement of the issues of Pakistani debt restructuring, settlement of financial obligations, promotion of inter-bank relations, establishment of most-favoured-nation status in trade and investments.

Sources said it was decided that the Pakistan-Russia Inter-governmental Commission on Trade, Economic and Scientific and Technological Cooperation would boost its activities with the expected expansion of trade and economic interaction between the two countries.

Pakistan and Russia have stressed the importance of further intensifying beneficial cooperation, especially through close economic interaction and augmentation of their bilateral trade.

It was decided to enhance cooperation in matters related to energy, metallurgy, telecommunications and several infrastructure development projects. The two sides discussed matters related to a treaty on mutual legal assistance in criminal matters and a treaty on mutual assistance and legal relations in civil and trade matters.

During discussions on Afghanistan, both sides stressed their common interest in the reintegration of Afghanistan into the international community as a peaceful state living in harmony with its neighbours. The central coordinating role of the United Nations and its security council in this process was emphasized.

The two countries also discussed a strategy to combat the menace of increased production of drugs in Afghanistan and their illegal trafficking to the adjacent countries and other regions.

Source: DAWN

H Khan

02-28-2004, 12:48 AM

WASHINGTON: President George Bush has formally determined that Pakistan is cooperating with the US in the “global war on terrorism.”

In a notification issued by the White House on Thursday, a memo addressed by the President to the Secretary of State said, “Consistent with the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, I hereby determine that the Government of Pakistan is cooperating with the US in the Global War on Terrorism. You are authorised and directed to report this determination to the Congress.” The formal notification was issued to facilitate the passage of federal budget that benefits Pakistan. —

H Khan

02-28-2004, 04:05 PM

Aroosa Alam

Islamabad—France, one of the nuclear powers has acknowledged that Pakistan’s nuclear capability is a reality and a fact. “We need to engage Islamabad on the issues pertaining to non-proliferation with the acceptance of the fact that Pakistan’s nuclear capability is a reality” said the French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin while replying to a question at a joint news conference with his Pakistani counterpart Khurshid Mehmud Kasuri Saturday afternoon .

Asked whether France recognises Pakistan as a nuclear power, he said we must face the reality.

He said France is prepared to open dialogue with Pakistan on strengthening of export control, greater transparency regarding nuclear activity and participation of Pakistan in international efforts with regard to non-proliferation. He said France is proposing a summit of heads of state on proliferation in the coming months and expects Pakistan to participate in it.

Foreign Minister Khurshid Mehmud Kasuri said Pakistan is a declared nuclear power and there is no question of roll-back of our nuclear programme. He said our nuclear weapons are for defensive purposes. He, however, said within this context Pakistan is fully prepared to cooperate with the international community against proliferation.

Mr Kasuri said during comprehensive round of talks with the French Foreign Minister, the two sides agreed to strengthen and expand bilateral relations in economic, commercial, defence and cultural fields. He said Pakistan admires the importance that France attaches to the promotion of cultural and educational cooperation.

He pointed out that the French Foreign Minister is visiting at a time when the composite dialogue between Pakistan and India has already commenced. The French Minister expressed support for the resumption of composite dialogue to address all outstanding issues including Jammu and Kashmir. He said Dominique de Villepin appreciated Pakistan’s role in the war against terrorism, reconstruction of Afghanistan and its decision to address the question of non-proliferation in a constructive manner.

He said Pakistan and France continue to cooperate with each other in the UN Security Council.

The French Foreign Minister paid tributes to President Pervez Musharraf’s determination to open a new phase in the history of Pakistan. He pointed out that Pakistan has taken a courageous decision to fight terrorism.

He said President Musharraf has also underlined the necessity of stopping any kind of proliferation activity from Pakistan and we fully approve it. He said France welcomes President Musharraf’s call for moderate and enlightened Islam. He said France is committed to work with Pakistan on a comprehensive relationship to develop political dialogue and strengthen cooperation in economic, cultural and defence fields. He appreciated that Pakistan was playing a major role for stability in the region.

He hoped that resumption of dialogue with India will pave way for lasting peace in South Asia. He said it is important that the two countries should overcome their problems and mistrust. He said European Union is closely following regional developments and overcoming of the problems would brighten prospects of greater interaction between Pakistan and European Union.”South Asia is now on right track and we are satisfied with the developments taking place between India and Pakistan”, he said.

To a question, he said France was also concerned over the plight of detainees in Guantanamo Bay and wants legal solution of the problem.

Mr Kasuri pointed out that as a result of discussions with American authorities twenty Pakistani detainees have already been released while there are still about thirty-eight.

To a question about French decision to ban wearing of head scarf, French Foreign Minister said the ban is restricted to public schools and is aimed at promoting the spirit of religious tolerance.

He said France respects and protect human rights and law about ban on scarf is note let loose religious discrimination against those who wear scarves and who don’t.

The philosophy behind the new law is that no one, particularly young population of schools is singled out due to religion or a particular outfit or veil.

The French Foreign Minister very strongly dispelled the impression that this law was directed against Muslim “On the contrary it is to treat Muslims at par” he observed.

H Khan

02-29-2004, 02:40 PM

CAIRO [MENL] -- Egypt and Pakistan have launched high-level military talks meant to expand defense cooperation between the two countries.

A Pakistani military delegation, led by Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Gen. Mohammed Aziz Khan, arrived in Cairo on Thursday for talks with President Hosni Mubarak.The meeting was attended by Egyptian Chief of Staff Gen. Hamdi Wahabe and was meant to kick off efforts to advance a range of joint defense and military projects between Cairo and Islamabad.

Khan was expected to stay in Egypt for about a week during which he would focus on efforts to expand Egyptian-Pakistani military cooperation. Diplomatic sources and media reports said Khan has scheduled meetings with Defense Minister Hussein Tantawi and the commanders of the Egyptian military.

"The Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee will discuss matters of mutual interest with the officials of these two countries during his visit," the Pakistani News Service said.

H Khan

03-02-2004, 09:27 AM

02/03/2004 at 11:47:02

Date line: LAGOS
Nigeria and Pakistan are this week holding detailed talks over developing increased military cooperation, Nigeria's defence spokesman said Tuesday.

The talks on military equipment and training began on Monday after the arrival of General Mohammed Aziz Khan, the chairman of Pakistan's Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, Colonel Ganiyu Adewale told AFP.

"The general is in Nigeria for a five-day visit bordering on all areas of military cooperation between Nigeria and Pakistan," he said.

He said Khan will visit military installations and formations in Abuja, Lagos and Kaduna and meet with President Olusegun Obasanjo before leaving to return home on Friday.

Nigeria and Pakistan, members of the British Commonwealth, have both been important contributors to recent UN peacekeeping missions, and both have in recent years deployed forces on home territory to counter Islamic extremism.

© 2004 AFP

SyedA

03-02-2004, 09:30 AM

sounds like a very extensive training program is in the works.

MohammedA

03-03-2004, 11:35 AM

Good idea to establish Peacekeeping institute. It should be created in Pakistan as we have most troops in the UN.

Jang.com.pk

Pakistan-Germany discuss role in UN, peacekeeping and Human Rights
(Updated at 2100 PST)
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan and Germany on Wednesday discussed wide spectrum of issues, including UN reform, peacekeeping, fight against international terrorism, UN role in Iraq, Afghanistan and, issues before the Commission on Human rights.

Ambassador Hans-Joachim Daerr, Director General Global Issues, the UN, and Human Rights in the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs, who is currently visiting Pakistan, held delegation level talks with Tariq Osman Hyder, Additional Secretary (UN&EC).

Both sides agreed that there was a need to reform the United Nations to make it effective and responsive to the challenges of the 21st century. Pakistan and Germany are currently members of the UN Security Council.

Ambassador Daerr lauded Pakistan's contribution of troops and other personnel in support of the UN peacekeeping efforts.

The Pakistani side briefed him on Pakistan's proposal for establishing a Peacekeeping Training Institute, stating that Pakistani troops and other personnel had gained substantial experience in peacekeeping, which they could share with others.

On UN's role in Iraq, both sides welcomed the recent initiative of the UN Secretary General and agreed to maintain close liaison on the matter.

Both sides stressed that the international community should continue to provide support to the ongoing efforts in Afghanistan aimed at promoting peace and creating stability. Both sides agreed to maintain close coordination on global fight against terrorism.

SSAAD

03-03-2004, 12:20 PM

Just as an FYI, the School of Infantry & Tactics in Quetta has a separate department/faculty for instructions in peacekeeping roles/duties. This was established in the mid to late 90s.

SSAAD

03-04-2004, 03:31 PM

Guys WTH is going on here? How the hell could the CJCSC even suggest anything like this in the back drop of this whole proliferation mess? Sounds like either the Nigerians or the press is having a field day on Pakistan's expense....in the center of this stands our so called "Islamist-leaning" Gen Aziz (CJCSC).....oh how convenient right?

Pakistan may make Nigeria a nuclear power

Julian Borger in Washington
Thursday March 4, 2004
The Guardian

Pakistan yesterday offered to share military assistance, including "nuclear power" with Nigeria, in defiance of President George Bush's new counter-proliferation initiative.

The offer was announced by the Nigerian defence ministry in a statement saying that General Muhammad Aziz Khan, chairman of Pakistan's joint chiefs of staff, had made the offer to the Nigerian defence minister, Rabiu Kwankwaso, during a visit to the west African state's capital, Abuja.

"Speaking at the opening of the discussions, the Pakistani chairman of joint chiefs of staff ... said that his country is working out the dynamics of how they can assist Nigeria's armed forces to strengthen its military capability and to acquire nuclear power," the Nigerian press release said. Neither the Pakistani nor the Nigerian governments clarified what Gen Khan had in mind.

The announcement is likely to provoke consternation in Washington, coming just a month after the mastermind behind Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme, Abdul Qadeer Khan, admitted publicly that he had run a black market in nuclear weapons materials.

Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, expressed shock at the confession, but pardoned Mr Khan, much to the anger of nuclear inspectors at the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna.

A detailed report in the New Yorker this week suggested Washington had turned a blind eye to the Pakistani government's connivance in sales of nuclear materials and technology to countries like Iran and Libya, in exchange for permission to send American commandos to hunt down Osama bin Laden in Pakistan's Hindu Kush.

A week after Mr Khan's confession, President Bush launched a counter-proliferation initiative based on international cooperation to curb transfers of nuclear technology and materials. Gen Khan's offer to Nigeria appeared to be in blatant defiance of that initiative.

The general made clear that the snub was intentional, declaring: "Pakistan had to take its destiny into its own hands to become a nuclear state because of the regular threats posed by hostile neighbours with special reference to the Kashmir conflict," according to the press release.

US officials are also baffled at Nigeria's intentions, nearly five years after the country restored civilian rule, and at a time when it is under no threat from its neighbours.

Two months ago, the Nigerian vice president's office announced that it had struck an agreement with North Korea to gain access to Pyongyang's missile technology. The offer was subsequently denied by North Korean officials and played down by a spokeswoman to Nigeria's president, Olusegun Obasanjo.

The Nigerian government said at the time that "nothing was written in stone" and that any North Korean missile help would be used for "peacekeeping" and to protect its territory. It said it was not seeking nuclear technology or any other weapons of mass destruction.

The South Korean unification minister, Jeong Se-hyun, said it was not clear whether Nigeria had accepted the offer, but said he didn't think the issue would cause many problems. "I see it as a tactic by North Korea to arouse anxiousness from the United States ahead of the second round of six-nation talks," Mr Jeong said. Nevertheless, the reports caused alarm in Washington.

"If the Nigerians go through with this purchase, they will have earned the unenviable distinction as the first sub-Saharan African state to introduce ballistic-missile technology to the region. They will become the initiator of a supremely wasteful and potentially deadly arms race," said Richard Norton, a national security expert at the US naval war college.

"Nigeria's motives would be questioned and its moves viewed with suspicion. And the Nigerian-US relationship would be damaged, perhaps badly. Substantial amounts of US military and law enforcement aid given to Nigeria might be placed in jeopardy." :(

SSAAD

03-04-2004, 03:38 PM

Good at least a strong denial from both Nigerian and Pakistani governments....can't believe the idiotic crap that these Nigerians are pulling lately!!

Pakistan Official Offers Aid to Nigeria
Thu Mar 4, 9:50 AM ET

By GILBERT Da COSTA, Associated Press Writer

ABUJA, Nigeria - Nigeria's Defense Ministry said Pakistan's top military official offered to share unspecified assistance with Nigeria's armed forces, but a Nigerian defense spokesman later retracted a statement that the offer included "nuclear power."

In a late night communique, Nigeria's Defense Ministry claimed the chairman of Pakistan's joint chiefs of staff, Gen. Muhammad Aziz Khan, said during a scheduled visit to Nigeria that Pakistan "is working out the dynamics of how they can assist Nigeria's armed forces to strengthen its military capability and to acquire nuclear power."

However, Nwachukwu Bellu, the Nigerian Defense Ministry spokesman who signed Wednesday's statement, told The Associated Press on Thursday that "it was a mistake" for the communique to have mentioned nuclear power as an area of possible cooperation.

"It was a mistake," Bellu said without further clarification. When asked whether officials from the two countries discussed nuclear cooperation at all, he replied: "Nothing like that happened."

He declined further comment. Other Nigerian officials were not immediately available for comment.

The statement, issued late Wednesday, did not say if Pakistan was offering nuclear weapons, or if Nigeria was seeking them.

Pakistani officials quickly denied the claim.

"This is a baseless story and a conspiracy to hurt our image," Pakistan's information minister, Sheikh Rashid Ahmed, told The Associated Press Thursday in Islamabad.

The Pakistani military also issued a statement that Kahn did not "offer of Pakistan's assistance to Nigeria to acquire nuclear power."

"Pakistan is a responsible nuclear state. It fully understands its obligation" toward non-proliferation, the Pakistani military said.

Pakistan came under significant international pressure after one of its top nuclear scientists admitted last month that he sold nuclear technology to Iran, as well as North Korea (news - web sites) and Libya ? all nations on the U.S. list of terrorism sponsors.

Less than two months ago, Nigeria announced that North Korea had agreed to share missile technology with Nigeria, an offer that was subsequently denied by North Korea.

Nigeria said any North Korean missile help would be used for "peacekeeping" and to protect its territory. It said it was not seeking nuclear technology or weapons of mass destruction.

Under former army dictators, Nigeria's military was viewed as an international pariah for ruthlessly suppressing dissent. Involvement in African peace missions since elections restored civilian rule in 1999 has helped repair its image abroad.

H Khan

03-07-2004, 09:16 PM

By Shaukat Piracha

ISLAMABAD: Chinese Defence Minister Gen Cao Gang Chuan will pay a three-day official visit to Pakistan from March 23 to March 26 to talk with senior Pakistani officials about increasing Sino-Pak defence cooperation, sources told Daily Times on Sunday.

Sources said 21 Chinese Defence Ministry officials would accompany Gen Chuan.

Gen Chuan would meet President Pervez Musharraf, Prime Minister Zafarullah Jamali, Defence Minister Rao Sikandar Iqbal, Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee Chairman Gen Aziz Khan and the three services chiefs, sources said, adding that President Musharraf would host a lunch in Gen Chuan and his delegation’s honour. They said the visit was important because Gen Chuan was the Chinese Central Military Commission deputy chairman, state councillor as well as the defence minister. Gen Chuan would arrive in Pakistan on the evening of March 22 and would be received by Pakistani Defence Minister Iqbal, sources said, adding that he would be accorded a guard of honour at the Defence Ministry on the morning of March 23.

He would also visit Taxila and was likely to visit Kamra as well, sources added. They said Gen Chuan would go to Lahore and attend a lunch hosted by Punjab Governor Lt Gen (r) Khalid Maqbool on March 24.

H Khan

03-07-2004, 11:01 PM

ISLAMABAD (March 08 2004): Commander-in-Chief of US Central Command (Centcom), General John Abizaid is expected to visit Pakistan in the third week of March to discuss hosts of issues, particularly consultations on strategies to launch operation simultaneously in Afghanistan and Pakistan to search and hunt Osama bin Laden and his top deputies including Aiman Al-Zawarehi.

"General Abizaid is expected in the evening of March 21-22 as part of regular consultations on war against terrorism as Pakistan is a vital ally to the US-led international coalition in this war", an official source revealed to NNI here on Sunday.

The Centcom Chief is arriving in the follow-up of the mission of US Secretary of State Colin Powel who is arriving here on March 17.

Following the visit of General Abizaid, eight to ten US senators would also be visiting Pakistan to further cement bilateral ties at the political and parliamentary level.

They would also be holding meetings at high-level on matters related to nuclear proliferation, Pakistan-India relations and issues concerning to war against international terrorism," an official source said.

Some 70,000 strong Pakistan Army and paramilitary troops have been deployed along with the porous border of 2,500 kilometre's with Afghanistan to plug any chance of the militants to sneak into Pakistan from adjacent areas of Afghanistan.

Copyright News Network International, 2004

Sultan

03-07-2004, 11:25 PM

According to CMF the PN, PMA or the Coast Guard suppossedly acquired 2 ONUK MRTP®33 Fast Patrol / Attack Craft

http://www.yonca-onuk.com/mrtp_33.htm (http://)

Can anybody confirm?

http://www.centurychina.com/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi/plaboard/?cmd=get&cG=33635393731383&zu=33363539373138&v=2&gV=0&p=

Usman Shabbir

03-08-2004, 07:36 AM

According to CMF the PN, PMA or the Coast Guard suppossedly acquired 2 ONUK MRTP®33 Fast Patrol / Attack Craft

http://www.yonca-onuk.com/mrtp_33.htm (http://)

I have been told by a navy friend that we bought two boats for the SSG-N.

H Khan

03-08-2004, 12:21 PM

I believe Rashid wrote few weeks back that Pakistan signed a contract for two Turkish 190 ton boats to be manufacturered in Karachi.

H Khan

03-08-2004, 07:33 PM

PRESIDENT Pervez Musharraf is coming under severe pressure from his senior commanders to raise the issue of Indo-Israel Phalcon deal with the US Administration at the highest levels, Pakistan Observer has learnt from top defence sources.

The issue was in fact taken up by the Foreign Secretary Riaz Khokhar last June with the senior State Department officials while the deal was still in the pipe, but the Bush Administration turned down the objections by saying that they would compensate Pakistan in some way in future. Uncle Sam’s unconditional approval of the sale of the Israeli Phalcon Airborne Early Warning (AEW) system to India has taken many in Pakistan by surprise as the deal has been signed with ease and no pre-conditions by Washington as was promised to Islamabad.

The Phalcon AEW system is equipped with most advanced and new generation of radars, censors and other intelligence equipment. The system also has a great potential to render Pakistan’s missile capabilities less effective as the system has tactical surveillance of airborne and surface targets and the gathering of signal intelligence.

In fact system is the latest generation of AWACS which has been so effective in Iraq and Afghanistan. Musharraf who has been cooperating with US and allies whole-heartedly in war against terrorism even at the cost of having serious internal security crises, finds himself in a rather difficult situation after the conclusion of AEW deal between India and Israel.

President Musharraf is believed to have gone into a series of meetings with his national security advisors over the development with also some subtle but emergency diplomatic exchanges with Beijing who remains to be the other unhappy capital over the new strategic development in the region. As a first reaction, the President has ordered the test firing of Shaheen 2 missile at earliest. It has also been decided to conduct a series of long and short range missiles in coming weeks.

Besides this President Musharraf who is also the head of Nuclear Command Authority has directed the SPD (Strategic Plans Division) to gear up work on various strategic projects with also the finalisation of infrastructure for the three strategic forces of Army, Navy and the Airforce.

The AEW system has disturbed the strategic balance in the region and Pakistan will have to move fast to correct this imbalance. The Indo-Israeli military nexus has contributed fuel to more tension in the already volatile South Asia at a moment when the leaders are trying to defuse tension and move forward with dialogue process and Confidence Building Measures (CBMs). Military sources say that due to his unflinching support to USA in war against terrorism and his government’s proactive approach towards the nuclear proliferation issue, President Musharraf is well within his legitimate right to demand the supply of new generation of Patriots and the AWACS system from USA. The USA during the last Pak-USA Defense Consultative Group Meeting had offered old generation of Patriot system to Pakistan which was rejected by Islamabad on the plea that the country needed a new system and most preferably the AEW system. Sources say that after the new development, Pakistan will now seriously start looking into various options to acquire Airborne Early Warning System from sources other than USA. To acquire AEW has been core of Pakistan’s defensive policy for a long time. Islamabad remained quiet due to the fact that AEW deal had been in dolsdrum for a long time. It was expected in Islamabad that USA would continue to block the deal till India and Pakistan make significant progress on the resolution of Kashmir issue, the hope proved futile.

Usman Shabbir

03-09-2004, 04:39 AM

Chinese defence team due on 22nd

BEIJING, March 8: A top-level Chinese military delegation will visit Pakistan this month to boost bilateral cooperation in the defence sector. Defence sources told APP that the visit would take place from March 22 to 26.

The delegation will be led by Chinese Defence Minister Gen Cao Gangchuan and will include senior members of the People's Liberation Army. During its stay, the delegation will meet top civil and military officials to discuss the Sino-Pakistan defence cooperation.

http://www.dawn.com/2004/03/09/top13.htm

H Khan

03-09-2004, 10:45 PM

ISLAMABAD (March 10 2004): The Turkish Air Force's Commander, General Halil Ibrahim Firtina would visit Pakistan from March 10 and call on Pakistan President, Defence Minister; Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee and Chief of the Air Staff.

The Turkish General, along with his wife and three-member delegation would visit from March 10-14 on the invitation of Pakistan Air Force.

After graduation from Turkish Air Force Academy in 1962, General Halil Ibrahim Firtina got his status as a fighter pilot in 1964. During his illustrious career he held number of Command and Staff appointments.

He assumed command of Turkish Air Force on 30th August, last year.

H Khan

03-09-2004, 10:45 PM

ISLAMABAD (March 10 2004): The Defence Committee of the Cabinet on Tuesday discussed different dimensions of national defence, took cognisance of international, regional and national developments; and took suitable policy decisions.

The committee meeting was chaired by Prime Minister Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali.

Senior Minister for Defence, Ministers for Finance, Foreign Affairs, Interior, Information and Broadcasting, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, Services' Chiefs, Principal Secretary to the Prime Minister, Cabinet Secretary, Defence Secretary and other senior officials attended the meeting.

MohammedA

03-11-2004, 06:08 AM

President Musharraf is believed to have gone into a series of meetings with his national security advisors over the development with also some subtle but emergency diplomatic exchanges with Beijing who remains to be the other unhappy capital over the new strategic development in the region. As a first reaction, the President has ordered the test firing of Shaheen 2 missile at earliest. It has also been decided to conduct a series of long and short range missiles in coming weeks.

Does this mean Shaheen2 test was also meant to send a signal to Isreal over the Phalcon deal, and that they were now withinh Pak range? Does this mean that Pak targetting analysts will now include Isreal on their list? What will be Chinese reaction to the Phalcon? They must be seriously upset with the US & India/Isreal over this deal - especailly given the US stopped AWACS sales to China because they thought Taiwan would be threatened.

Sultan

03-11-2004, 07:27 AM

I dont know why China isnt making any concrete moves to acquire a AEW&C capability after the Phalcon fiasco. I know they have an indigenous programme going but theres no way the radar is going to be more advanced than whats currently in the market unless its a joint venture. Embraer has set up a regional jet assembly line in China so theres your platform sorted out now all they have to do is acquire the radar and irrespective of Swedens morally driven foreign policy business is business. When China comes knocking on your door asking for 10 Erieye radars you dont say NO.

Sultan

03-11-2004, 07:33 AM

The Shaheen test is solely aimed at sending a message to the Indo-Israeli-US nexus. I wouldnt be surprised if Tel Aviv is on the hit list but thats probably intended to be more of a deterrence than anything else. It would be absolute madness sending those birds armed with a WMD of some sort knocking out Masjid Al Aqsa and half the Palestinian popn. in the process (not to mention all the innocent Israeli civilians).

But I predict that the Israelis will call our bluff and continue to arm India to the teeth with the tacit approval of Congress. Its just a case of what we can do to check Israeli moves. Supplying delivery systems to the GCC is completely out of the question what with the AQK mess. Unless of course we're willing to give uncle sam the two fingers.

Gul Khan

03-11-2004, 07:22 PM

It is not Israel arming India but US, You must look at the bigger picture. With the dragon going from strngth to strength if I was US I would be extremly worried. Pit one agianst the other and no one plays this game better then the US.

Hasib

03-12-2004, 07:33 AM

Supplying delivery systems to the GCC is completely out of the question what with the AQK mess.

Despite the progress Pakistan has made in defence field, it still has a long way to go to become a consistent supplier of arms and armament to the world.

We are still dependent on other countries. Mainly power/propulsion for tanks, planes, submarines etc. Same could be said about electronics and avionics. Why would GCC countries buy hardware from Pakistan? Not because we are all Muslims. I hate to be cynical when was the last time Muslim country truly cared for each other and did some thing to support.

Only real option we have is to accelerate our economic recovery. Invest in education and R&D facilities. We need to be independent in every aspect of defence related technologies. I know it will require time and lots of financial resources.

Hasib

asimM

03-15-2004, 11:33 PM

salaams,

does anyone know the status of the proposed sale of al-khalid tanks to saudi arabia?? when will it be made official?? could musharraf have been in saudi recently to discuss this?? thanks.

Munir

03-16-2004, 06:35 AM

Embraer has set up a regional jet assembly line in China so theres your platform sorted out now all they have to do is acquire the radar and irrespective of Swedens morally driven foreign policy business is business. When China comes knocking on your door asking for 10 Erieye radars you dont say NO.

If Israel was corrected what makes you think that this system with US parts is going to be sold to China?

Sultan

03-16-2004, 12:00 PM

I never knew the Ericcsson Erieye did have US components??

SyedA

03-17-2004, 06:47 PM

found on AFM, dont know the source

20 Mashaks ready for delivery to Saudi Arabia

By Muhammad Saleh Zaafir

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has informed Saudi Arabia that 20 Super Mashak aircraft are ready for delivery. The twin-seat light aircraft is the best machine for aerial surveillance. Minister of State for Defence Production Maj (retd) Habibullah Warraich said Wednesday that as the Riyadh government releases payment, the planes would be dispatched to Saudi Arabia.

The minister of state, who accompanied President Musharraf to Saudi Arabia, said these aircraft are equipped with sophisticated instruments and meant for training even at low altitude. The agreement for the sale/purchase of planes has already been finalised between the two brotherly countries. Each aircraft will cost Saudi Arabia around 20 million rupees, he added.

To a question, he said the Saudi government has deferred purchase and payment of Al-Zarrar tanks and Armoured Personnel Careers (APCs) because of the huge debts. Saudi Arabia has to offset loan worth US$ 200 billion. The expenses are the result of first Gulf war but the Saudi government would be able to clear the burden in a couple of years, he hoped.

To a question, the minister said Saudi Arabia has assured Pakistan that it will purchase tanks, APCs and other equipment but Islamabad will have to wait for some time. The minister made it clear that Pakistan did not take up the issue of supply of oil free of cost or on defer payment to Pakistan as President Musharraf advised all members of his entourage not to raise the matter with the host.

saadahmed

03-17-2004, 08:15 PM

Source for the news is The News

http://jang.com.pk/thenews/mar2004-daily/18-03-2004/main/main18.htm

zeeshan

03-17-2004, 09:48 PM

20 Mashaks ready for delivery to Saudi Arabia

By Muhammad Saleh Zaafir

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has informed Saudi Arabia that 20 Super Mashak aircraft are ready for delivery. The twin-seat light aircraft is the best machine for aerial surveillance. Minister of State for Defence Production Maj (retd) Habibullah Warraich said Wednesday that as the Riyadh government releases payment, the planes would be dispatched to Saudi Arabia.

The minister of state, who accompanied President Musharraf to Saudi Arabia, said these aircraft are equipped with sophisticated instruments and meant for training even at low altitude. The agreement for the sale/purchase of planes has already been finalised between the two brotherly countries. Each aircraft will cost Saudi Arabia around 20 million rupees, he added.

To a question, he said the Saudi government has deferred purchase and payment of Al-Zarrar tanks and Armoured Personnel Careers (APCs) because of the huge debts. Saudi Arabia has to offset loan worth US$ 200 billion. The expenses are the result of first Gulf war but the Saudi government would be able to clear the burden in a couple of years, he hoped.

To a question, the minister said Saudi Arabia has assured Pakistan that it will purchase tanks, APCs and other equipment but Islamabad will have to wait for some time. The minister made it clear that Pakistan did not take up the issue of supply of oil free of cost or on defer payment to Pakistan as President Musharraf advised all members of his entourage not to raise the matter with the host.

H Khan

03-21-2004, 08:55 PM

BEIJING (March 22 2004): A top-level Chinese military delegation will arrive Islamabad on Monday on a five-day visit to Pakistan.

It will be led by the Defence Minister General Cao Gangchuan and includes senior members of the People's Liberation Army (PLA).

The visit is a part of the on-going efforts to boost bilateral co-operation in the defence sector.

The delegation is scheduled to meet President Pervez Musharraf and Prime Minister Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali, besides other high-ranking civil and military officials.

A senior defence official told the newsmen in Beijing that the two sides will review the existing co-operation as well as to discuss the future strategy for strengthening their decades old strategic partnership in defence sector.

The defence relations between the two countries have always been a great source of building confidence and self-reliance.

Their armed forces are working together in a spirit of safeguarding national sovereignty and promoting regional peace, stability and development.

According to the sources, the visit is highly significant, since it takes place soon after the annual session of the National People Congress (NPC), Chinas highest legislative forum.

The Chinese defence sources said the exchanges and interaction between the two armed forces have increased in the recent years, particularly in the sector of defence production.

The Chinese people and their armed forces have always regarded Pakistan as their sincere, reliable and trustworthy friend and brother, the sources said, adding "the Chinese side has always been willing to make joint efforts with Pakistan to go on advancing the army-to-army friendly and co-operative relations."

The signing of the China-Pakistan joint declaration on the eve of the President's visit was a major step forward taking the bilateral co-operation in all fields of mutual interest to a new height in the 21st century. It covers almost entire spectrum of bilateral co-operation.

The declaration underlines the importance of their defence relations and a regular Defense Security Consultation Mechanism in promoting military-to-military exchanges and co-operation.

General Cao Gangchunan had met President Pervez Musharraf during his visit to Beijing last November.

He is also a member of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee, vice-chairman of the Central Military Commission, state councillor and minister of national defence.

zeeshan

03-21-2004, 09:33 PM

Assalam oalaukum,

some more specific details of radar sales to Pakistan:
http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/notif_db.php?regionin=nesa&ctryin=pak&descin=&date1in=2003&date2in=2003&typein=%

interesting that TSP-77 is actually a military radar with a range of over 250 km and look down capability.

H Khan

03-22-2004, 09:13 PM

BEIJING (March 23 2004): The Chinese army was committed to consolidating military exchanges and co-operation with Pakistan.

"These kinds of relations maintain good momentum, the Chinese Defence Minister, Cao Gangchuan said here in an interview before leaving on a five-day visit to Pakistan.

Cao, the Central Military Commission's vice-chairman also, said the visit was in line with China's diplomatic efforts to build a good neighbourly relationship and partnership with neighbouring countries, and aims to consolidate and develop mutual understanding and trust, as well as deepen bilateral friendship and co-operation.

He said, "China is willing to actively create a harmonious, stable and peaceful regional political and security environment with all Asian countries including Pakistan".

The Chinese people and their armed forces had always regarded Pakistan as their sincere, reliable and trustworthy friend and brother, the Minister said, adding the Chinese side had always been willing to make joint efforts with Pakistan to go on advancing the army-to-army friendly and co-operative relations.

Commenting on Pak-China joint declaration on bilateral co-operation last November, on the relations between the two countries and their armed forces, Cao said, "the Sino-Pakistani friendship has maintained continuous growth since the establishment of diplomatic relations despite the fast-changing international situation.

The Chinese government appreciates Pakistan's unswerving support in international affairs, he said, adding that China was ready to further deepen the bilateral co-operation with Pakistan in various fields, so as to inject new vitality in to bilateral friendly relations.

The two armed forces had frequent fruitful exchanges and co-operation at various levels in various fields," he said, expressing the hope that the bilateral military relations would continue to make new progress in the future

The delegation, during its stay in Isla